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	<title>Comments on: Reporting on a poster-child for global warming</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.cejournal.net/?feed=rss2&#038;p=2223" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223</link>
	<description>News &#38; Perspective from the Center for Environmental Journalism</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 02:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Tom Yulsman</title>
		<link>http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223&cpage=1#comment-5192</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Yulsman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223#comment-5192</guid>
		<description>Excellent link Steve. I am going to forward it to my students. Thanks for sharing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent link Steve. I am going to forward it to my students. Thanks for sharing it.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bloom</title>
		<link>http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223&cpage=1#comment-5191</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223#comment-5191</guid>
		<description>That's good to hear.

I notice that by coincidence there was a near-simultaneous &lt;a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-climate-mtkenya10-2009nov10,0,2592832,full.story" rel="nofollow"&gt;article&lt;/a&gt; regarding Mt. Kenya that took a completely different approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s good to hear.</p>
<p>I notice that by coincidence there was a near-simultaneous <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-climate-mtkenya10-2009nov10,0,2592832,full.story" rel="nofollow">article</a> regarding Mt. Kenya that took a completely different approach.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Yulsman</title>
		<link>http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223&cpage=1#comment-5175</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Yulsman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223#comment-5175</guid>
		<description>Great point Steve. I need to pay closer attention to the distinction myself. As for Bhanoo, I think she was simply in over her head. I'm not even sure she would know what "attribution" means in the context of climate research. And I don't think she really read the paper, or if she did, it doesn't appear that she understood it. Her approach was to interview dueling experts and leave it at that. 

Interestingly, some of my students felt that one point was lost in the reporting on this paper: It's possible that both Mote and Thompson are each partially right. Global climate change could be changing regional climate in such a way as to reduce cloud cover. 

Other students felt that there was an opportunity here to pursue a less shopworn angle than the attribution question, especially since in the big scheme of things it matters not one whit what's causing the ice loss on Kilimanjaro. The folks who depend on summer runoff are just as screwed whether the cause is local or global. These students felt that the impact of melting glaciers and ice caps on water resources was a potentially more important, compelling and productive angle, with Kilimanjaro serving as a way to explore the larger phenomenon.

They made me smile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great point Steve. I need to pay closer attention to the distinction myself. As for Bhanoo, I think she was simply in over her head. I&#8217;m not even sure she would know what &#8220;attribution&#8221; means in the context of climate research. And I don&#8217;t think she really read the paper, or if she did, it doesn&#8217;t appear that she understood it. Her approach was to interview dueling experts and leave it at that. </p>
<p>Interestingly, some of my students felt that one point was lost in the reporting on this paper: It&#8217;s possible that both Mote and Thompson are each partially right. Global climate change could be changing regional climate in such a way as to reduce cloud cover. </p>
<p>Other students felt that there was an opportunity here to pursue a less shopworn angle than the attribution question, especially since in the big scheme of things it matters not one whit what&#8217;s causing the ice loss on Kilimanjaro. The folks who depend on summer runoff are just as screwed whether the cause is local or global. These students felt that the impact of melting glaciers and ice caps on water resources was a potentially more important, compelling and productive angle, with Kilimanjaro serving as a way to explore the larger phenomenon.</p>
<p>They made me smile.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bloom</title>
		<link>http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223&cpage=1#comment-5174</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223#comment-5174</guid>
		<description>A late note on this:

Tom, I hope your students are (or become) clear on the difference between formal and informal attribution in climate science, the former requiring modeling and setting a very high threshold for drawing firm conclusions, and the latter being a somewhat arbitrary sliding scale of opinion that will vary depending on who you're talkiing to (and is what we saw in this instance).  Bhanoo seems to have been unclear on this distinction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A late note on this:</p>
<p>Tom, I hope your students are (or become) clear on the difference between formal and informal attribution in climate science, the former requiring modeling and setting a very high threshold for drawing firm conclusions, and the latter being a somewhat arbitrary sliding scale of opinion that will vary depending on who you&#8217;re talkiing to (and is what we saw in this instance).  Bhanoo seems to have been unclear on this distinction.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Earl Salmony</title>
		<link>http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223&cpage=1#comment-5155</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Earl Salmony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223#comment-5155</guid>
		<description>Please, give President Barack Obama a reason for going to Copenhagen next month so that he has a chance to make the difference that makes a difference. Action is needed now. Support the objectives of the Copenhagen Climate Conference before it is too late for even these great, leading-edge human beings with feet of clay to guide the children away from the patently unsustainable lifestyles of the self-proclaimed Masters of the Universe among us and toward sustainable ways of living in the planetary home God has blessed us to inhabit as stewards, I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please, give President Barack Obama a reason for going to Copenhagen next month so that he has a chance to make the difference that makes a difference. Action is needed now. Support the objectives of the Copenhagen Climate Conference before it is too late for even these great, leading-edge human beings with feet of clay to guide the children away from the patently unsustainable lifestyles of the self-proclaimed Masters of the Universe among us and toward sustainable ways of living in the planetary home God has blessed us to inhabit as stewards, I suppose.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223&cpage=1#comment-5143</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223#comment-5143</guid>
		<description>I thought the Time magazine article was the best-written and reported of the Kilimanjaro stories and was actually surprised by how bad the New York Times piece was. 

One of NYT reporter’s primary sources was climatologist Philip Mote of Oregon State University, who himself apparently didn’t read the PNAS report very carefully. Mote’s sole basis for arguing that warming can’t be leading to glacial melting is that the air is always below freezing. Therefore, the glaciers must be evaporating. Yet, the evidence provided by the core samples clearly show recent ice melt and that this has never happened before, even during past droughts lasting 300 years. 

Which raises another question the NYT reporter raised by failed to answer – is the PNAS ice data legit or not? Glaciologist George Kaser says Thompson’s data is meaningless because it represents only a few hundred years of history (and not 11,700) and that even that ice had come and gone several times over and thus should be suspect. This seems an important issue to get to the bottom of since the whole story depends on it and by all measures, an event that hasn’t occurred in over 11,700 years is a significant. Rather than doing the reporting for us the reader is left to go sift through six pages of dense PNIS data himself to figure this out. I think this is what Boykoff would call false balance and the result is we’re left wondering about the accuracy of the data rather than considering the more compelling issue or listening to a more relevant source than Kaser.  

Clearly the Ohio State University article took the most liberties of all the articles, sounding the alarm that global warming is causing the snows of Kilimanjaro to melt. The author concludes that cloudiness and precipitation are secondary, less important factors, and describes dramatic physical evidence of global warming. The liberties taken in this piece were shocking, especially if you read this article last as I did. Perhaps I shouldn’t have been so surprised, however, given that it was written by a university communications/PR department. 

A couple of issues these articles seem to tell us is that a.) climate and weather patterns are complicated and often interwoven; B.) global warming’s impacts to weather are equally complex and mysterious to scientists at this point: Are Kilimanjaro’s glaciers melting from drier air or warmer air? What does that say about global warming impacts? Can’t drier air be related to climate change as warmer air is? (Often lost in discussions of climate change, and I believe relevant here, is that the two terms, global warming and climate change are not interchangeable. Roughly, climate change represents all the changes happening to our climate as a result of warming, such as temperature, humidity, rainfall, wind, severe weather events, while global warming refers only to warming.); C.) For the above reasons, it is very dangerous to draw early, obvious and anecdotal conclusions about the impacts of global warming. This is especially true if you’re name is Al Gore, or you’re doing advocacy. Climate change skeptics and detractors are waiting in the wings to take up any scrap of falsehood or stretched truth to discredit global warming or at least sew a few seeds of doubt. They understand all too well that once there exists even the smallest doubt among the public about a single piece of evidence, there is no need to take action. In short, there exists too much concrete evidence on global warming’s impacts to our planet to use the mixed bag of Kilimanjaro’s glacial melt as evidence of global warming or climate change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought the Time magazine article was the best-written and reported of the Kilimanjaro stories and was actually surprised by how bad the New York Times piece was. </p>
<p>One of NYT reporter’s primary sources was climatologist Philip Mote of Oregon State University, who himself apparently didn’t read the PNAS report very carefully. Mote’s sole basis for arguing that warming can’t be leading to glacial melting is that the air is always below freezing. Therefore, the glaciers must be evaporating. Yet, the evidence provided by the core samples clearly show recent ice melt and that this has never happened before, even during past droughts lasting 300 years. </p>
<p>Which raises another question the NYT reporter raised by failed to answer – is the PNAS ice data legit or not? Glaciologist George Kaser says Thompson’s data is meaningless because it represents only a few hundred years of history (and not 11,700) and that even that ice had come and gone several times over and thus should be suspect. This seems an important issue to get to the bottom of since the whole story depends on it and by all measures, an event that hasn’t occurred in over 11,700 years is a significant. Rather than doing the reporting for us the reader is left to go sift through six pages of dense PNIS data himself to figure this out. I think this is what Boykoff would call false balance and the result is we’re left wondering about the accuracy of the data rather than considering the more compelling issue or listening to a more relevant source than Kaser.  </p>
<p>Clearly the Ohio State University article took the most liberties of all the articles, sounding the alarm that global warming is causing the snows of Kilimanjaro to melt. The author concludes that cloudiness and precipitation are secondary, less important factors, and describes dramatic physical evidence of global warming. The liberties taken in this piece were shocking, especially if you read this article last as I did. Perhaps I shouldn’t have been so surprised, however, given that it was written by a university communications/PR department. </p>
<p>A couple of issues these articles seem to tell us is that a.) climate and weather patterns are complicated and often interwoven; B.) global warming’s impacts to weather are equally complex and mysterious to scientists at this point: Are Kilimanjaro’s glaciers melting from drier air or warmer air? What does that say about global warming impacts? Can’t drier air be related to climate change as warmer air is? (Often lost in discussions of climate change, and I believe relevant here, is that the two terms, global warming and climate change are not interchangeable. Roughly, climate change represents all the changes happening to our climate as a result of warming, such as temperature, humidity, rainfall, wind, severe weather events, while global warming refers only to warming.); C.) For the above reasons, it is very dangerous to draw early, obvious and anecdotal conclusions about the impacts of global warming. This is especially true if you’re name is Al Gore, or you’re doing advocacy. Climate change skeptics and detractors are waiting in the wings to take up any scrap of falsehood or stretched truth to discredit global warming or at least sew a few seeds of doubt. They understand all too well that once there exists even the smallest doubt among the public about a single piece of evidence, there is no need to take action. In short, there exists too much concrete evidence on global warming’s impacts to our planet to use the mixed bag of Kilimanjaro’s glacial melt as evidence of global warming or climate change.</p>
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		<title>By: Marisa</title>
		<link>http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223&cpage=1#comment-5142</link>
		<dc:creator>Marisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223#comment-5142</guid>
		<description>I think it's interesting that neither Bhanoo nor Lemonick emphasize Thompson's finding that the glacier mass loss, shrinkage, and retreat is occurring elsewhere in the world where there has not been a loss in precipitation, such as the Quelccaya ice cap in Peru.  This suggests that glacier retreat is not due to regional changes, but the overall observed increase of global temperatures.  This suggests that global warming trumps regional changes as the reason for ice shrinkage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s interesting that neither Bhanoo nor Lemonick emphasize Thompson&#8217;s finding that the glacier mass loss, shrinkage, and retreat is occurring elsewhere in the world where there has not been a loss in precipitation, such as the Quelccaya ice cap in Peru.  This suggests that glacier retreat is not due to regional changes, but the overall observed increase of global temperatures.  This suggests that global warming trumps regional changes as the reason for ice shrinkage.</p>
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		<title>By: googler</title>
		<link>http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223&cpage=1#comment-5118</link>
		<dc:creator>googler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 23:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223#comment-5118</guid>
		<description>Thanks - in that case I suggest you add the work of Mote and Kaser to the reading list (8 pages):

http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/feature/the-shrinking-glaciers-of-kilimanjaro-can-global-warming-be-blamed/1RecentarticleinAmericanScientist.

and add the question:

How well do you think either story represented the full breadth of scientific opinion?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks - in that case I suggest you add the work of Mote and Kaser to the reading list (8 pages):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/feature/the-shrinking-glaciers-of-kilimanjaro-can-global-warming-be-blamed/1RecentarticleinAmericanScientist" rel="nofollow">http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/feature/the-shrinking-glaciers-of-kilimanjaro-can-global-warming-be-blamed/1RecentarticleinAmericanScientist</a>.</p>
<p>and add the question:</p>
<p>How well do you think either story represented the full breadth of scientific opinion?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bloom</title>
		<link>http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223&cpage=1#comment-5109</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223#comment-5109</guid>
		<description>FYI Tom, if one forgets to fill in name and email before posting a comment here, the helpful software gives one a message to that effect and kindly deletes the text. :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI Tom, if one forgets to fill in name and email before posting a comment here, the helpful software gives one a message to that effect and kindly deletes the text. <img src='http://www.cejournal.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tom Yulsman</title>
		<link>http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223&cpage=1#comment-5108</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Yulsman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cejournal.net/?p=2223#comment-5108</guid>
		<description>Our class meets on Monday at noon, Mountain time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our class meets on Monday at noon, Mountain time.</p>
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